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Dark and Darkerの人気の記事

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嘘つきの民族だからな|3月17日「Dark and Darker」まとめ

Dark and Darker ランキング 注目の話題
2024年03月17日 08:10
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ウォロって板金カチカチ幽霊腐敗、軽装で幽霊と魔法or腐敗と魔法、デーモンウォロって感じで選択肢たくさんあるけどどれが1番強いんですかねぇ|3月7日「Dark and Darker」まとめ

Dark and Darker 強い
2024年03月07日 09:10
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FULL LUCK SET IS BUSTED (300+ LUCK) - Dark and Darker

Dark and Darker
2024年03月21日 18:10

Dark And Darker Update | Why Steam's Most Popular Game Is Probably Dead | Asmongold Reacts

Dark and Darker
2023年04月06日 18:10
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SwiftpawTheYeet2023/04/06(木) 07:34
the investors vanishing isnt telling at all, theyre doing what any investor would do and waiting to see the outcome before giving any more funds like lolwut, they arent going to fund the legal battle if they have no idea whats going on
SwiftpawTheYeet2023/04/06(木) 07:26
but p3 was cancelled? even with a no compete you arent competing with something if its cancelled so this makes no sense, i dont think you can even say "well it was cancelled because members left", like of so what if they left if they thought it was a good idea they wouldve gotten more employees on it not cancelled it.... just sounds like they salty af they gave up and cancelled it just to see that itd actually do mildly successful
Kyle Moore2023/04/05(水) 10:58
I don’t care about any of this, I mean, I do it’s kinda shitty and dumb… but the point is there’s now a successful game that people want to play but can’t play… we should be able to at least play the game in the meantime while all of this is sorted, and if this whole thing means the game is just gone forever then it’s a bad outcome no matter who wins the business/legal fight.
Highly Mobile Hobo2023/04/05(水) 10:45
"A passionate member of the team taking matters into xir's own hands." This is exactly the argument Budweiser is using.
Blood Vixen2023/04/05(水) 10:10
Siding with the underdog for the sake of it simply being the underdog is pure ignorance manifest. I'm totally with Asmon on this take.

Totally waiting to hear Ironmace's take on it, but it's not looking good for them until they defend themselves. Justice is impartial, and it's primary function is accountability. Nexon is holding receipts. Regardless of whatever your opinion is, one thing is certain: Ironmace is in a truly legal bind here. And Dark and Darker's chances of surviving are looking dark and darker still.
Blood Vixen2023/04/05(水) 09:55
46:27 sounds like something my good friend Benny once said:

"Truth is, the game was rigged from the start."
MycroSparks2023/04/05(水) 01:15
I dont think a lot of people understand programming and how making games work, hence the weird opinions on the matter. There's a few people saying "Oh but making a game from scratch still takes time", yes, but we literally have proof on youtube of people cloning/copying a game within a week or two, when the original game took 2-3 years to develop. The programming part is the easy one, you just write code that functions in a way you want it to. So how come it takes 2-3 years to an original game from scratch? Cause you have cycles. You program, your artists make assets, you design systems and how they play off eachother, and then you get testers to play it. Gather opinions on what systems don't work and similar stuff, then repeat. It's basically a loop of polishing and making the gameplay & everything better, which doesn't exist once the game is out. Diablo 4 has been in development for about 2 years now, and there's a few videos on youtube where one dude just made a clone, obviously it's worse then the game, but you could sell it and earn a decent chunk of money. And it's only possible cause we've seen the beta and all their core design ideas, they're REALLY easy to implement and program once you know how everything should work.
M96k3y2023/04/05(水) 09:30
Let me go work at a factory, make steel balls or something, then claim they're mine just cause i made them.
Just cause you make steel balls, does not mean you actually own a pair.
Nick Agin2023/04/05(水) 08:52
I understand people being frustrated by this, especially if they enjoy playing the game. However, if you think it's OK to just steal intellectual property that someone paid you to develop so you can reap all the benefits shows you know nothing.
Bukkyuman2023/04/05(水) 06:38
Go find Chinese DnD. That's more faster than original DnD
만둣속아이2023/04/05(水) 01:04
현명한 선택
doremifasolasido2023/04/05(水) 04:27
This situation is literally illiterate idiot gamers get trolled by underdogma between Nexon of dirty innocence and Ironmace with clean guilty.
MICARUS2023/04/05(水) 02:06
People in the West just don't understand how hated company Nexon is in Korea. So many people in Korea have been with Nexon this time, despite their initial prejudice, as the disciplinary dismissal, to them, (especially if a company has a Unionized group of laborers, like Nexon) is like more than just a red flag. Mad respect to Asmongold for understanding this thoroughly :) Btw, as a Korean here, trust me: I fuckin' hate Nexon. But to people who have been blatantly supporting the dumbass IronMace simply because they want to play the stolen game: well, there it goes for you; congrats that Steam delisted your game and perhaps there will be no 5th test from your sacred thief. It will be fine people. IronMace made Dark and Darker in 10 months; so they will return to you all for another great game in the next 10 months!
SJ Y2023/04/05(水) 10:24
Westerners don't know the working environment in Korea.They don't understand that in korea, the company can't fire a worker, and the worker can legally completely ignore the company's request for dismissal, unless there's something unusual. There is also a difference in the views on severance pay.
Brandon Dimopoulos2023/04/05(水) 12:30
I never liked Nexon , I downloaded and installed the game MapleStory years ago and couldn't uninstall the game. The uninstaller wasn't able to remove and neither was Windows. Reformat it was.. nexons got one of the most agressive anti cheats on gaming and have done alot of harm to PCs over the years but doesn't make me believe iron mace.. can think what we think but ultimately the court will decide
SJ Y2023/04/04(火) 11:14
I think fanboys can win a medal in mental gymnastics
MrBloodsplatt2023/04/04(火) 11:05
So many doomers in the comment section, the game will be fine and it'll come out. There is ton of proof through logs to prove they made it from sketch, is P3 like Dark and Darker? Yes. Is Nexon's game Kart Rider exactly like Mario Kart? Yes, but guess what is still up? They aren't the same game and of course some features are in the game, they MADE P3 so of course their art style and theme is gunna be kind of the same. They'll win this lawsuit and the playtest will be up April 14th, all these Nexon employee's in here commenting legit non-sense.
Matthew Weston2023/04/05(水) 10:30
The fact you think comparing Kart Rider and Mario Kart is anything similar to this situation speaks volumes...
MrBloodsplatt2023/04/06(木) 12:01
@Matthew Weston Okay guy who put his legit name as his youtube username LOL.
노네 n0_ne2023/04/04(火) 09:38
This blind post was a Feb. 9. post.😂😂 The juice was not reaching the western community
노네 n0_ne2023/04/04(火) 08:40
17:25 hurdle is the Nexon mid-term inspection meeting for developing games.
Every games goes through this since 2006 and if a games fails to pass the hurdle meeting, the game can just drop like that and the team disassembled. It's just a fucking important mid term test to see the game is good to continue
Doomerlytic 2023/04/04(火) 07:17
I work in a union. Mr. A must’ve been doing bad shit to get fired and not have representation by the union.
Reaper2023/04/04(火) 06:47
Common Asmon W
Rhino2023/04/04(火) 06:38
can we just boycott nexon?!!
121dan1212023/04/04(火) 06:06
I don't trust Nexon
Hooah me Dont2023/04/04(火) 05:32
Nexon = miso(taste like turd, smells like turd)
Ironmace = steamy turd(taste like miso, smells like miso)
I don't want to choose one or another.
but if I have to, and if death is not an option
I rather swallaw miso(that taste like turd)
nammal2023/04/04(火) 03:04
justice shall be done~~~
James Young2023/04/04(火) 01:56
The art difference between unity and unreal is non existent, the are the same thing. The ONLY difference would be in shaders and the minor differences between Unity's shader graph and Unreal's, however 99% of the the differences are just with naming or convivence. As far as art goes it's comical because that is the ONLY thing between Unreal and Unity that basically the same. The coding can be similar but are different enough to be a hurdle and in some cases can cause a complete restructure of the entire code base causing the project to be started over from scratch. Art of the other and can just be brought over 99.99999% of the time.
Person Someone2023/04/04(火) 09:05
The only chance in hell that they win the case is how much of development went through for p3 compared to darker and darker first release. With the benefit of the doubt they could have remade the files or massively overhauled it and that might just barely make their work stand out as a dervitive of an idea the other company had rather than them finishing and profiting off of a half down game
In the Pines2023/04/04(火) 08:21
Is it just me or did Asmonds face get a little more... rounder?? It almost looks like he got filler injections but I can't really see him doing that. Maybe new teeth or something and it's making his face more fuller looking around his cheeks or if he is just gaining more weight? Idk. Am I going crazy or has something changed?
23plaster2023/04/04(火) 01:03
Best case scenario for the fans of the game is that after Nexon wins (if it wins) releases the game itself. It would also give Nexon a bit more love from players if they do keep the game playable not to mention recup some of the monetary losses incurred in this whole mess.
AsherYunan2023/04/04(火) 01:02
My favorite outcome here would be Ironmace being in the right and nexxon being wrong, but nexxon forcing Ironmace into bankruptcy and the game getting canceled. That would be an event
Chris Brandenburg2023/04/03(月) 08:33
At this point I really don't care who makes it. I just want to play the game. Looks like I won't get too
Bob Fudge2023/04/03(月) 06:20
Charlie feeling real dumb right about now, me to kinda he lowkey swayed me
S1ph3r2023/04/03(月) 06:18
I think at this point they should scrap it, get out of it unscathed if possible. Stop making dark and darker, and start working on the next version of it that’s different.
Vlad Eughen2023/04/03(月) 06:09
But the most important lesson ppl should learn is that game creators should NEVER sign absurd agreements. Don't pander to these psychopaths by agreeing anything that they ask from you just because they give you a job.
만둣속아이2023/04/05(水) 12:18
개발자가 아닌 디렉터가 도둑질한것인데 계약이야기가 왜 나올까요?
개발자는 피해자입니다.
한국 게임회사 문화에 대한 이해가 없으면서 계약이 잘못되었다는 이상한 이야기는 없었으면합니다.
계약이 잘못되었으면 애초에 징계해고는 당하지 않았을것입니다.
모든 노동자는 노동조합의 보호아래에 있으며 이는 회사가 감히 범접할수 없는 것입니다.
Man falling off a ladder2023/04/03(月) 05:39
I agree with a majority of his points on the game and the legal sides but god he contradicts a lot of his points on chatters and how people are. Streamer ego is a hard thing to watch. Streamer told by his fans he's smart so he believes, knows it.
Jonathan Lautert2023/04/03(月) 05:17
22:48 LOL
Like breeding season and cloud meadow
ItsHorizonz2023/04/03(月) 04:33
I think Asmon is gonna get sponsored by Nexxon soon lol. Does seem like they got fucked over though, sucks that there are bad actors like this
Lord Edge2023/04/03(月) 04:17
Is P3 going to be released?
Jerriel2023/04/03(月) 03:32
u would be so surprised how much koreans hate nexon for their a lot of bs with maplestory and other p2w stuffs BUT with DnD case people are siding nexon.
Mata Hari2023/04/03(月) 03:57
I experienced that nexon in the past 3 years have been trying "redemn themselves" with mintrocket studio(dave the diver etc) and blue archive.


P3 was initially designed to be part of the mintrocket indie project, screwed up by choi and his gangs.
Mata Hari2023/04/03(月) 04:00
especially nexon KR
Their collaboration with yostar changes the way they think about the future of their game.
Brady Martin2023/04/03(月) 02:15
Slapping copyright on something you intend on leaving in the trash is worse, the content will never exist vs taking it out of the trash so the world can enjoy the content, locking content in the trash should be illegal
Nullifidian2023/04/03(月) 12:00
Wtf, you had short hair not that long time ago!?
Roy Bread2023/04/03(月) 10:34
So the one game I was looking forward to will never be released. Fantastic.
최한빈2023/04/03(月) 09:42
One more thing.. one other major "investor" was Hive IM. <-which was founded my former nexon higher ups.... it looks like Nexon vs Nexon to me..
Hurbieo2023/04/03(月) 08:29
Why are people saying Koreans hate Nexon? How are they afloat if everyone hates them?
hy6954 k2023/04/03(月) 02:45
Many people hates AGS but Amazon will never get afloat 😂. Many people just don't give a shit when they use services or buy stuff if it is needed or reasonable.
Hurbieo2023/04/03(月) 08:57
Amazon Games has yet to be profitable it's kept afloat by amazon proper which most people seem to like. Does Nexon have anything other than their game library or are they backed by someone bigger like tencent?
hy6954 k2023/04/04(火) 01:33
@Hurbieo Companies usually don not go down by their reputations that fast. It goes down slowley. The stock holders see Nexon as profitable enough even though many people hates it, a few bunch of whales carry the whole company. Look at the new phone game they released. Less then 1% of the player base uses more then 80% of the profit. And Nexon is a union of small and big studios like Devcat, Wizet etc. Of course bc many people do hate Nexon in Korea, the companies profit hugely relies on chinese opened game (Dungeon and fighter), and the profit keeps shooting down from 2018. So it is slowly sinking. That is why they are trying to lessen the predatory business model like hardcore p2w and fund indie game companies to chang their reputation. Which is no helping yet. I do hope they change dramaticly but It is close impossible.
Hurbieo2023/04/04(火) 10:10
@hy6954 k It does seem they have a strong mobile game presence. While it eludes me completely why I do understand that mobile games make way more money than traditional video games. I'm just amazed they were able to get where they are. I remember when they were a young company buying decent indie games and adding mtx rental gear to everything. I'm not trying to argue against you I was curious how they could become the company they are when they were hated since day 1. But an MMO aimed at the Chinese makes perfect sense.
Rebecca Sample2023/04/03(月) 07:27
Man. I'm so sad, I got addicted to dark and darker during the playtests. I'm shocked by this new information
HavokzTheName2023/04/05(水) 04:08
same. i am deeply sadden
YB2023/04/06(木) 01:33
Hey positive aspect is that at least you have very smart enough to listen and see the given facts by yourself and found out what is going on.
Seems like many monkeys are struggling with that apparently.
You will be able to find a better game for you soon enough.
lacker1012023/04/03(月) 05:55
2 things can be true. Nexon is Corporate Giant in the Asian market, and it's bureaucracy didn't understand it had lightning in a bottle. Unfairly canceling a promising project. Meanwhile the head of these projects had little or no intention of finishing these projects in good faith. Using their resources and money to set the foundation for his firm.

Not a lawyer. But from an outside perspective it looks real bad.
Faythful2023/04/03(月) 02:49
Isnt there just going to be an an arms race during this drama for the first developer team outside of nexon/ironmace to recreate a slowpaced, fantasy, loot and shoot extraction game with different assets?
infiniteechoes2023/04/03(月) 02:32
The one thing I would disagree with on the comments from Zach is that it's not financially beneficial for Nexon to lie about it because the game was cancelled... Their impetus for lying in this case would be the massive interest DnD has garnered. I will not be surprised, at all, to see Nexon releasing a Darker and Darkerer after this case is decided in their favor. Doesn't mean they are lying, but the reason they are pursuing this is for financial reasons, i.e. they want the game under their name and for their financial profits.
James2023/04/03(月) 12:43
But I like D&D so that means Nexon is lying!

D&D is a good game which means the devs at Ironmace are good people!

Plus, corporations bad. But not small corporations. Just the big ones. But not the big ones that make stuff I like. Only the big corporations that make stuff I don’t like.


I am 100% unbiased and right
J Smith2023/04/03(月) 12:22
Yeah guys, Nexon would never mistreat devs, overly-monetize a game, utilize a hefty PR team, or legally strong-arm anyone who gets in their way. Nahhhhh, never. It's all those pesky employees who wanted to steal from innocent little Nexon.
YB2023/04/06(木) 01:38
You can think like that, but ask most game developers in Korea, they will gladly go and work for Nexon if given a chance probably 90%.
Also, cant you think that IM is the greedy one to monetize DnD? Reason why they left was they wanted all the money to themselves from DnD.
Chris P2023/04/03(月) 12:03
Grandma's boy style face off. Let's see who really made this game
Emperor DxD2023/04/02(日) 11:43
As an actual game developer evething asmon said is correct this is extremely unethical
2hearts4u2023/04/02(日) 11:41
Nexon has the copyright for generic fantasy like dungeons, magic and all of this? And maybe Escape from Tarkov gets the next DMCA Claim because they stole the loot system and how the extraction works from Nexon too, right? Its hilarious....
야아2023/04/05(水) 03:23
No its just that ironmace stole a work frpm nexon while they were working
2hearts4u2023/04/05(水) 01:51
@야아 It was allready "stolen", i saw everything in Dark and Darker (there are only GENERIC DUNGEONS in the whole game) many times in many different fantasy games before. Apart from the fact that the loot-system of Escape from Tarkov was brazenly copied.^^
Krykry2023/04/02(日) 11:00
TLDR: The know-how and mechanics/planning that was done and gained during their work at Nexon, belongs to Nexon.
They planned and developed the game while being paid salary by Nexon, just to sabotage the project midway and remake it outside the company.
That is pretty scummy.
YB2023/04/06(木) 01:41
And yet fanboys cannot make arguments on this comment.. duh
Minh2023/04/02(日) 10:09
I don't understand how Western people hater Nexon than I 😂😂😂😂 and how they judge Korean people like MASS companies. I mean I grew up with Nexon games. I smashed by my mom few times because I paid for Nexon through home-call-payment(first BM from Nexon and NC, pick up a call and paid.) that was about 20 years before. And they were getting worse and worse. And we call them "MoNe(y)xon" We understand more than fuckin' you know. Even that you should understand why do I believe more on the side of Nexon? It is because fuuukin' due to evidences. Come on! lets being aware! you are not an animal dude. you can think with your own brain. You have your own ears. Feel like I am the culture now got backward to middle age. Yeah let just prey to die god. Either prey to the tiger
Insane world 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Louis Nguyen2023/04/02(日) 10:07
Been a fan of nexon since I first saw my first video game, MapleStory, but one key thing that holds true even to this day, nexon NEVER listens to the community. What makes today any different?
Tempest2023/04/02(日) 10:03
Asmon "ironmace could be lying, people lie" also asmon "seems like everything Nexon said is true"
Ebbe san2023/04/02(日) 09:58
that twitch person Fosteredlol that he pulled up has this on hes twitch profile "I'm an Army Vet living in Washington! Odd streams and gamedev when I feel up to it!" (when i feel up to it) sheeeessshhh
Eric Lee2023/04/02(日) 09:22
I honestly don't believe Charlie saw the same video and still thought what he repeated on stream about IronMace
John McFarlane2023/04/02(日) 08:19
Thanks Asthma Gold
Poleritude2023/04/02(日) 07:55
As I was watching this the same thought about recommending the Devin Nash video on the situation occurred to me. He's a really big fan of the game, and he even reached out to them to volunteer to do some gratis marketing and brand awareness stuff for them (He is the CEO of a marketing/influencer agency). Even with that enthusiasm though, his analyzing of the situation cuts a lot closer to you and the video you are watching than the fans who are just defending Iron Mace because they really want to see the game come out. I can respect a "Facts Matter" approach to things.
JOE XD2023/04/02(日) 06:41
Nexon isn't 100% honest in the lawsuit when mentioning ''dark bricks'' & classes names, which is Dungeons & Dragons stuff. Nexon cannot have a strong case and throw bogus stuff just to add some spice at the same time... Nexon is desperate otherwise they wouldn't have add useless stuff in the lawsuit.
YB2023/04/02(日) 11:05
Who is more desperate? Nexon with others games to survive OR Ironmace begging for money from their fans?😂
JOE XD2023/04/02(日) 11:26
@YB You said it, Nexon has other games to ''survive''.
YB2023/04/02(日) 11:46
Bro regardless, you will not get your game back no matter how much you cry out. Justice served.
Spy_Penguin28.2023/04/02(日) 06:02
Henrik Augustsson2023/04/02(日) 05:47
It is obvious that you cannot work at a company, get paid to develop a game, and when that game is scrapped you leave and recreate it from the same assets, with code and shot you stored on a private server you never gave the company back after leaving.
When you are being paid by a company, anything you pitch becomes the company’s intellectual property.
If this wasn’t the case, you could get paid working at a company, you develop something that is faulty, they scrap it and you fix it at home and get all the money while they footed all the bills for the development.
No company would ever take that risk, of course they wouldn’t let you take stuff developed on their dime and make bank! It’s common sense.
River2023/04/02(日) 05:43
I absolutely despise Nexon, but from everything that has been revealed thus far, they're in the right.
Fender1782023/04/02(日) 05:12
Oh my how have the tides have changed before the Koreans were like screw Nexon and go IronMace. Now the Koreans think yeah we were wrong about Nexon and they have a valid claim. Just add tons of evidence to the mix that backs up their claims..
Konstales2023/04/02(日) 05:11
Ethically it looks like ironmace is in the wrong, but legally we don't know yet. At the end of the day I just want the better game no matter who makes it.
만둣속아이2023/04/05(水) 12:22
그들이 법적으로 싸우는동안 중국에서 d&d를 닮은 더 좋은게임들이 양산될 것 입니다! 그것을 즐기십시오!
Fil2023/04/02(日) 04:25
NEXOS?! :D
OPShinkie2023/04/02(日) 03:56
Any imagery of P3? because if not how do we know they are copying 1 for 1? Having the similar concept while using same store assets that you are used to using already is not good enough. If the game P3 was never going to be a tarkov style br then it was not the same game. Nexon will have to prove that everything was copied 1 for 1 otherwise its just people from the company making a similar but different game using what they learned from working at Nexon.
OPShinkie2023/04/02(日) 04:14
Generally speaking though game mechanics cannot be copyrighted or trademarked and the assets ironmace used are free to use and the name is different. So many clone games out there wouldn't exist if this was otherwise the case. Sadly we will never see D&D as this case will be dragged in courts till the lesser company money wise (ironmace) just has to give up.
Aggnog2023/04/02(日) 03:32
The funniest thing about all this is that these earlier projects had like 5-10 people and that they couldn't find unreal programmers? Like cmon nexon is a multibillion dollar company they can find anyone they want.
Brandon Moore2023/04/02(日) 03:10
This makes Iron Mace and the game of Dark and Darker look good. This guy is trying so hard to be on Nexxon side but can’t find any ground.
YB2023/04/02(日) 11:12
😂 keep crying you still won get your game kid
fugehdehyou2023/04/02(日) 03:08
Both companies need to come to an agreement. The new devs get 80% and the old guys who did p3 get 20%.

Small piece of a big pie or 100% of no pie?
Rvffy V2023/04/02(日) 05:06
Lmao, nexon will wreck d&d.
YB2023/04/02(日) 11:14
Nexon already wanted to collaborate with Ironmace and forgive their wrong doings. And yet Ironmace refused because they thought they had another back, which fleed after the lawsuite
Elam2023/04/02(日) 02:59
(software developer) A couple of notes:
- The 'git' segment is interesting. 'Git' is short for 'github.' Its basically "where the team stores their code." There's reference to an 'external' git. That's really interesting, because "What is an 'external' git repository in this context?" Is it the previous company's git? Is it a completely independent git repo created on the down-low? If so, why would that exist?

- 'most assets are modular anyways, water mark them to prove they aren't stolen' ...lol, wut? Yes, ideal code is modular. No, there's no good way to watermark them that shows proof that assets weren't stolen. This is argument has no basis in reality. ...now, if you attached a hash or a uuid to an asset, and someone else was dumb enough to copy the asset along with that fingerprint, then you could prove it was stolen. Its a 'proof of guilt' tool, not a 'proof of innocence' tool.
Grax2023/04/02(日) 02:31
If Dark and Darker dies then some developer will make a version of the concept as it is so popular. I think we will get the game in some form anyway.
Stanko Barabata2023/04/03(月) 10:29
Will never be the same mate.
SonofaGib2023/04/02(日) 02:02
Im sure there will be many other devs working on similar titles to dark and darker now that theyve seen the demand for this type of game. It sucks what happened but it is what it is.
z1mt0n1x2023/04/02(日) 01:58
stop caring so much about Nexon, they've messed up so many games they deserve all the bad coming their way.
Solace Crafting2023/04/02(日) 12:45
I'm a "Game Designer" that's a real profession. It's pretty damn important by the way... If remaking a game from "scratch" uses all of the ideas, design, and innovation that Nexon spent, however long, generating, no, that's not okay. If remaking a game from "scratch" means you take a general premise or concept and make a new game with that, well then you're not really remaking a game are you, you're making a new game. Sadly it sounds like they did not.
e1m12023/04/02(日) 11:46
blind is not related to korea lmao. it's the same for all companies
Decker 》2023/04/02(日) 11:09
Case closed lmao
Auzuru2023/04/02(日) 11:07
I'm not trying to cope, but I want to see official dates from the creation of P3 and compare the creation to Dark and Darker or when Mr.A left the company, etc., rather than somebody working for NEXON make a statement about it lol (Sorry, but only because they're the bigger company doesn't mean they don't pay off people to make a statement about it)
Bodie B2023/04/02(日) 10:57
8:00 Asmon, I think you're confused about what "right to work" actually is...right to work is so people who get a job aren't forced into joining a union and or forced to pay towards a union just to be able to get a job in the company that they're applying for...believe it or not some places force people into a union... for example some people don't want to pay into a union that spends all their workers money trying to elect politicians that a large percentage of workers dont want elected yet in many states they have no choice... thats just one example... in my opinion just like everyone should be allowed to form a union, they should also not be forced into a union of they don't want to
뽀록2023/04/02(日) 10:32
Only two people were fired from Nexon for disciplinary action over a 20-year period. This gives further credibility to Dark & Darker as a stolen game, and an employee of Blind, a South Korean business community, revealed what happened while working on P3, a project that preceded Dark & Darker. Don't bother about what's happening on the subreddit. That's mostly wrong.
만둣속아이2023/04/05(水) 12:21
외국인들은 회사가 '당신 해고야'하는게 징계해고라고 오해하는 것 같아요.
징계해고는 진상중의 진상인 노동조합을 거쳐야 할 수 있는건데...
Shuikai2023/04/02(日) 10:32
Honestly I thought Nexon had them on the trade secrets side but now I'm not sure.

1. Nexon's copyright argument looks really weak. Trying to copyright a genre and classes is just silly.
2. Nexon's trade secret argument seemingly is far stronger, however after further investigation it appears that there was a 2021 in person nexon media showcase where they showed a series of images of the game, possibly more information (I wasn't there), which basically appear to be the images that have been leaked that we have available on twitter, which are the screenshots of P3. SO if these images were shown in 2021 before DaD came out, then that information on those screenshots is not a trade secret. For it to be a trade secret you need to take reasonable measures to ensure its secrecy. Showing a bunch of journalists the game, I doubt qualifies.

From the screenshots shown to the public in 2021 you can tell that this P3 game was/had
1. PvP + PvM
2. First person + RPG
3. Says 15 players at the top right
4. Had the six DnD classes used in DaD, there are screenshots showing every single class
5. Takes place in a dungeon, with dark bricks, torches, and interaction to open chests

None of that is a secret because they showed it to a bunch of journalists. Who are people where their job is to distribute information to the masses.
뽀록2023/04/02(日) 10:38
That's not the problem. Dark & Darker is a work that 'stoles' the source of P3. Most of the employees are former Nexon employees. There was even a suspicion that a company called Hybra had been in contact with them and helped them develop. Also, it is suspicious that they used the Director's private server instead of Nexon's public server.
Emi Ami2023/04/02(日) 11:35
​@뽀록 It's only stolen IF they can PROVE any of d & d was worked on nexon's owned pc's, failing that they have no case.
Shuikai2023/04/02(日) 04:45
​@뽀록 First of all, zero evidence they used Nexon P3 source code to make Dark and Darker. Second, highly unlikely that they would, and the game looks quite different visually, the similarities are in design. Thirdly, they gave him written approval to set up the personal server for use during COVID.

I think this will be the most difficult to nail them on. If you know anything about programming or computer science you know this one is silly.
Kūhaku The Otaku2023/04/02(日) 10:27
March of the Andys

Coming to a YouTube screen near you
Zurcarak2023/04/02(日) 10:19
i like how nexon's game doesn't even exist and here we are fking over dark and darker
chitin1222023/04/02(日) 09:28
I don't know the laws in Korea but if this was illegal then Deep Rock Galactic was also a stolen game as it was a concept under a different company before they went and made their own company Ghost ship games in order to make the project. Its kind of ridiculous expecting people not to bring ideas with them when leaving the company they are the same people after all.
Broom Hatter2023/04/02(日) 07:21
The devs behind Left 4 Dead went and made Back 4 Blood wasn't any legal issues between turtle rock and valve over making a very similar game.
Ex Warcraft 3 and Starcraft 2 devs are currently making their own RTS called Stormgate and Blizzard doesn't have any issues with it yet.
The devs for DotA split and made separate MOBA games League of Legends and DotA 2 and their has been no legal issues between any of those games.
There are plenty more examples of devs leaving to make their own games using what they had learned at their previous job to make their own games
Their are also various examples of people making clones of games be Battle Royals, MOBAs, and Call of Duty clones the only time legal issues came up was when there was stolen assets or code.
Overwatch and Paladins had a bunch of abilities in the games that were identical along with the games themselves being almost the same game and no legal issues came from that.
There is also no legal issue with using the same store bought assets as neither of the companies hold the rights to claim those assets as theirs.
P3 also lacks stuff unique to itself that isn't just taken from generic fantasy tropes and monsters that Nexxon can claim ownership of either.
So if ex P3 devs left to make their own game that is just like P3 than their should also be no issue unless Nexxon can prove that Ironmace actually stole assets unique to P3 or they stole code.
Broom Hatter2023/04/02(日) 10:26
​@LevityMire Heroes of Newerth and DotA 2. Icefrog left HoN mid development to make DotA 2.
Raigekon2023/04/03(月) 12:10
I think the implication is that they simply copy/pasted p3 and called it dark and darker and not that the game is just similar.
Broom Hatter2023/04/03(月) 01:10
@Raigekon They would be the same game if they stole code or assets which is still just allegations at the moment.
Raigekon2023/04/03(月) 01:22
@Broom Hatter Yep only allegations atm, we'll need to see how things go in court.

What I meant is that copy/paste is just somewhat the idea behind it, which is a bit different then the cases you presented.
Broom Hatter2023/04/03(月) 02:15
@Raigekon the idea is indeed the same their is no argument about that, but using the same idea for a game also isn't wrong.
Also the DotA examples is nearly identical with LoL, HoN, and DotA 2 all using developers who made DotA with DotA as the idea behind those games. Currently those MOBAs are very distinct from each other unlike back when they were being made, they were extremely identical than and it is important to note that neither P3 or Dark and Darker are released yet so we don't know how the idea for Dark and darker will change especially since P3 is cancelled.
Fhqwhgod Morloch2023/04/02(日) 07:03
I don't understand how people don't get one thing: You always sign a contract that everything you create for a company while they pay you is theirs, not yours. Goes for research projects, software development etc.
Henrik Augustsson2023/04/02(日) 05:53
Thank you for putting it so much more eloquently than I could!
Bagh Nakh2023/04/02(日) 08:54
The way you say it isn't technically correct, that would imply that if employees work on personal/independent proyects outside their worktime, using their personal private-owned tools, etc, also belongs to the company which it isn't the case. The think being talked about only applies when you're creating stuff while you're on your legal worktime, using company-owned tools, etc.
DamienS2023/04/02(日) 09:04
@Bagh Nakh create for a company
Henrik Augustsson2023/04/03(月) 12:43
@Bagh Nakh Doesn’t matter, because in this case that’s exactly what they have allegedly done.
They worked on a game for a company, not privately, and recreated it by themselves after they quit at the company.
You cannot develop something at a company and then take that concept for your own when the company decides not to keep developing. That’s their stuff, even if you did the work, they paid you to do it, so it’s not yours to take, even if they scrap it.

I’m not convinced you are even allowed to work on any side-projects at home when you are employed by a game dev company.
I have a several friends either working for dev studios or working independently as game devs, and we’ve talked about this before. One said he didn’t want to work for a studio for this very reason, not being able to do his own games on the side.
Bagh Nakh2023/04/03(月) 02:52
@Henrik Augustsson Never said that stealing art assets, code or whatever is ok. I was talking about when you're working in completely unrelated side projects outside of working hours. This is of course, clearly not the case with Dark and Darker since, so far, everything points in the direction of plagiarism at the very least or outright theft at the worst. I won't justify Dark and Darker, despite some people saying "but multi-million dollar company" because you're not only stealing from the company but you're also stealing other co-workers hard work and putting your own name on top of it using "bad working conditions" as an excuse.
Savix2023/04/02(日) 06:36
8:33 Just want to point out that Nexon only fired 2 people over 30 years. One of them was for selling items in Dungeon Fighter for real money & the other one you can already guess who 🙂Getting fired = committing a serious crime
This guy was pullin a big SUS
Peter Pan2023/04/02(日) 07:34
Yeah, Nexon has no problem milking us customers for all we have. But they REALLY don't want to mess with Korean law. Hence they only fire you when you really really messed up.
Jonathan Lautert2023/04/03(月) 05:17
22:48 LOL

Like breeding season and cloud meadow
Purepeter2023/04/04(火) 03:08
Hello Daddy Savix
Dep2023/04/02(日) 06:31
Half of these arguments are moronic. Like wow, risk averse public corporations lose interest in buying equity in a company facing serious legal issues? Of course they HAVE to know that Nexon is 100% in the right, no other way to read that.
Mshojat2023/04/02(日) 05:59
how can the concept of a game be a trade secret though? Game concepts are not copyrightable nor patentable. It doesn't seem like they'd be protected in any way. And while I can't prove it, I'd bet that they didn't steal any code nor assets either.

maybe the one thing that it is that they're going after is specific coding techniques on how to do certain things, but that really shouldn't/couldn't be considered a trade secret either. That's just coder knowledge that they gain from experience and which could be used on any project, regardless if it's similar to something they were once working on or not.


What's even crazier is how a game could be pulled from a store without any proof of it occurring. Any competitor could do this to any other company now whenever a developer leaves and joins their competitor. And it seems like they could easily hide behind plausible deniability and feigned sincere belief of infringement every single time, so repercussions of false allegations doesn't seem like something that would stop this.

They should need to provide plausible proof. I'm entirely fine with them getting a judge to give a warrant to raid the development team, that is just an unfortunate reality required to obtain proof. But once that raid occurs and the data copied, the dev team should be allowed to go right back to work immediately, continuing to sell and develop their game until evidence is found on the raided storage that demonstrates infringing material. THEN they should have their sales pages pulled down.


If there was some sort of non-compete clause in their employment contract then sure that could definitely be actionable depending on the details. However non-compete wouldn't —or at least shouldn't— be able to take down the game nor the company, only the infringing developers for breaking their individual employment contracts.
Emi Ami2023/04/02(日) 11:53
I'm completely neutral on this subject and never played the game but asmon is ignorant and just feels the need to be right in a contrarian sense because of his ego, he is being an armchair court judge, it's definitely a lot more nuanced and a lot less cut and dry than he states it is from his obviously unprofessional (legal wise) frame of mind and it's just funny how smart and correct he thinks he is over anyone disagreeing. It's really a childish/ immature point of view he has and you can clearly tell how smart he falsely believes he is due to a big ego from being a popular and wealthy internet personality, this is very common with big streamers who aren't very intelligent yet have giant over inflated egos due to their success as internet celebrities, just look at hasan, vaush and destiny, all good examples of giant egos due to internet popularity yet lack any actual intelligence in terms of nuance or critical thinking and can't stand being incorrect due to their giant egos so any time they're challenged and know they're wrong (which is often) they disengange and run.
Emi Ami2023/04/02(日) 05:42
I'm completely neutral on this subject and never played the game but asmon comes across as ignorant, armchair court judge type of thing, it's definitely a lot more nuanced and a lot less cut and dry than he states it is from his obviously unprofessional legal wise frame of mind.
Aegon The Dragon2023/04/02(日) 05:11
Nexon hopefully looses. This is just a petty attempt to claim a successful game. All this people left Nexon together because of the company's uncertainty and poor leadership. The Unreal assets don't belong to Nexon, nor the way they are used and neither the talent of these people.
Lornext2023/04/02(日) 05:02
Should have hosted it in the US...
Thats what you get on the Asian market.
Aegon The Dragon2023/04/02(日) 05:00
This is like Konami starting a copywrite lawsuit against Kojima because Death Stranding has some concept ideas that are similar to the cancelled Silent Hills.
SordMasta2023/04/02(日) 04:32
He should move the team and company to China and keep working on it. I want my DaD.

Maybe it's true, maybe this guy and his team did "steal" the project legal wise. But they did come up with those ideas themselves to begin with, so i hope they have a case. Im no lawyer.

But stay away from tencent. They are evil O_o
Mr Crowe2023/04/02(日) 04:22
26:55

kinda like making hours of react content
Azraenore2023/04/04(火) 10:03
Exactly
dhLotan2023/04/02(日) 04:20
Anyone interested in building a game and trying to get done before this court case is over 😁?
VeryBadSCAV2023/04/02(日) 04:06
I already covered very similar stuff with big korean youtuber reference, most of the comments were like 'wow you really like big company's balls, asians are weird, supportive to big company while we westerns are awesome and support small company'. I get its morally feeling good and all but come on,, at least repond with logic..
JerkingTheGerk2023/04/02(日) 04:03
So, with the success of Dark and Darker beta I wouldn’t be surprised if Nexon, if they win this case, will reopen P3 and put it out themselves.
Lux Invictus2023/04/02(日) 06:08
As they should. Looks like they literally only cancelled it because the lead people working on it quit so they could just remake it themselves and take the money.
Christer Jakobsen2023/04/02(日) 07:36
@Lux Invictus I'm not defending IM, but if Nexon makes the game, expect a shit ton of P2W bullshit.
The HighP2023/04/02(日) 08:25
@Christer Jakobsen yeah if Nexon releases the game themselves it will not be popular. it will be P2W and noone will care about it.
임상균2023/04/04(火) 11:03
it could be, but dark and darker was planned to be released by mint rocket which released dave the diver. And dave the diver is just a buytoplay game, so if nexon were ever gonna reopen dark and darker we can have some hope.
__2023/04/02(日) 03:56
Yeah...i don't know man...its like...the guy just redid everything which isn't technically stealing... Dark Souls 2 isn't Technically dark souls 1, similar but same ? I don't think so...
Maybe company s need to pay better wages if they expect /want loyalty...

How else are you gonna proof any of this shit if its different visual assets... I mean have you tried unreal Engine ? it already has a shooter preset, and inserting assets is as easy as flipping pages irl. You dont even need to program collision.
Emi Ami2023/04/02(日) 05:40
Yeah I'm completely neutral on this subject and never played the game but asmon comes across as ignorant, armchair court judge type of thing, it's definitely a lot more nuanced and a lot less cut and dry than he states it is from his obviously unprofessional legal wise frame of mind.
Post Mortem2023/04/02(日) 03:40
ironmace talked about the insider months and months back, he's the one the pushed this whole story to the korean news because he was mad that dark and darker was becoming a success
Lazarus2023/04/03(月) 09:50
Backed up by what? We will have to see in court to be 100 percent sure, but in my eyes a lot if circumstances are leading towards to the fact that Nexon is in the right at the very least in the field of law.

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